KOMPA! MAGAZINE

[HIPchick]

As a PROUD Haitian-American who has lived in both countries, been poor in neither and only live in one (or the other) at certain times in my life because of personal decisions (not because one has more to offer than the other), it saddens me to see how many on this board think that an occupied Haiti is the solution and is the best Haiti. That is because they have probably never lived in Haiti or at least in an occupied one. I have, I lived in Haiti beore the coup, during the coup and after the coup and an occupied Haiti is definitely not the best kind.

There is a reason, Haitians (even if sometimes secretly so) are regarded in high esteem as a people, despite the state of our country, it is because our tenacious, proud and hard-working people developed this back-bone through independence.

I will not preach however. I just want you guys to READ so that you can learn of your country's "failures" because as I recall it, living there during embargo, we didn't have a choice since the country was identified as a pariah by those it has become independence from and put on a list of countries from which not to buy from, conduct business from and for years been targeted by global media (as Africa had once been when all that was shown on screen were kinny "kwatchoko" babies).

How many times have you seen images on screen of YOUR Haiti? Images you can relate to as looking like your neighborhood or family or favorite restaurant or cultural activity? To hear many of you cheer for the first independent Black nation being occupied only proves that all they've done to diminished Haiti has woked and that its children are brainwashed and enslaved in mentality.
READ, LEARN AND PROVE THEM WRONG:
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=161585871

The hate and the quake

Hilary Beckles


Saturday, January 23rd 2010


UWI is in the process of conceiving how best to deliver a major conference on the theme, ’Rethinking And Rebuilding Haiti’.

For too long there has been a popular perception that somehow the Haitian nation-building project, launched on January 1, 1804, has failed on account of mismanagement, ineptitude, corruption.

Buried beneath the rubble of imperial propaganda is the evidence which shows that Haiti’s independence was defeated by an aggressive North-Atlantic alliance that could not imagine their world inhabited by a free regime of Africans as representatives of the newly emerging democracy.

The Haitians fought for their freedom and won, as did the Americans 50 years earlier. The Americans declared their independence and crafted an extraordinary constitution that set out a clear message about the value of humanity and the right to freedom, justice, and liberty.

In the midst of this brilliant discourse, they chose to retain slavery as the basis of the new nation state. The founding fathers therefore could not see beyond race, as the free state was built on a slavery foundation.

The Americans went back to the battlefield a century later to resolve the fact that slavery and freedom could not comfortably co-exist in the same place.

The French, also, declared freedom, fraternity and equality as the new philosophies of their national transformation and gave the modern world a tremendous progressive boost by so doing.

They abolished slavery, but Napoleon Bonaparte could not imagine the republic without slavery and targeted the Haitians for a new, more intense regime of slavery.

The Haitians won a ten-year war, the bloodiest in modern history, and declared their independence.

Haiti was freedom, and proceeded to place in its 1805 Independence Constitution that any person of African descent who arrived on its shores would be declared free, and a citizen of the republic.

The French refused to recognise Haiti’s independence and declared it an illegal pariah state. The Americans refused to recognise them, and offered solidarity instead to the French. The British, who were negotiating with the French to obtain the ownership title to Haiti, also moved in solidarity, as did every other nation-state in the Western world.

Haiti was isolated at birth - ostracised and denied access to world trade, finance, and institutional development. It was the most vicious example of national strangulation recorded in modern history.

The Cubans, at least, have had Russia, China, and Vietnam.

Then came 1825; the moment of full truth. The republic was celebrating its 21st anniversary. There was national euphoria in the streets of Port-au-Prince.


The economy was bankrupt; the political leadership isolated. The cabinet took the decision that the state of affairs could not continue.

The French government was invited to a summit.

Officials arrived and told the Haitian government that they were willing to recognise the country as a sovereign nation but it would have to pay compensation and reparation in exchange. The Haitians, with backs to the wall, agreed to pay.

The French government sent a team of accountants and actuaries into Haiti in order to place a value on all lands, all physical assets, the 500,000 citizens were who formerly enslaved, animals, and all other commercial properties and services.

The sum amounted to 150 million gold francs. The payments began immediately.

Thus began the systematic destruction of Haiti. The French government bled the nation and rendered it a failed state.

Haiti was forced to pay until 1922 when the last instalment was made. During the long 19th century, the payments to France amounted to up to 70 per cent of the country’s foreign exchange earnings.

Haiti was crushed by this debt payment. It descended into financial and social chaos.

The republic did not stand a chance. France was enriched and it took pleasure from the fact that, having been defeated by Haitians on the battlefield, it had won on the field of finance. In the years when the coffee crops failed, or the sugar yield was down, the Haitian government borrowed on the French money market at double the going interest rate in order to repay the French government.


When the Americans invaded the country in the early 20th century, one of the reasons offered was to assist the French in collecting its reparations.

Haiti did not fail. It was destroyed by two of the most powerful nations on earth, both of which continue to have a primary interest in its current condition.

The sudden quake has come in the aftermath of summers of hate. In many ways the quake has been less destructive than the hate.

Human life was snuffed out by the quake, while the hate has been a long and inhumane suffocation - a crime against humanity.

During the 2001 UN Conference on Race in Durban, South Africa, strong representation was made to the French government to repay the 150 million francs.

The value of this amount was estimated by financial actuaries as US$21 billion. This sum of capital could rebuild Haiti and place it in a position to re-engage the modern world. It was illegally extracted from the Haitian people and should be repaid.

It is stolen wealth. In so doing, France could discharge its moral obligation to the Haitian people.

France should do the just and legal thing.

Such an act at the outset of this century would open the door for a sophisticated interface of past and present, and set the Haitian nation free at last.

-Sir Hilary Beckles is

pro-vice-chancellor and Principal of the Cave Hill Campus, UWI.


-Courtesy Barbados Nation
_________________
Stay HIP!

[NEGKREYOL]

Merci Hipchick...

It's a shame to see some people form stubbornly unchangeable opinion about this BAY BLAN PEYI A debate is both extremely DANGEROUS and extremely FOOLISH.

This seem to be the easy thing to do in this time of crisis but one should never make any decision solely base on EMOTION.


Bush did it and fought two wars that nearly bankrupt his country.
_________________
Knowledge Will Forever Govern Ignorance

[D K Bess]

In other words...
La France té lagé Haiti nan CHILD SUPPORT...
_________________
APPACHE jiskozo
TOUT SAK TÉ KANPÉ SOU WOUT YO... YO PAT POU NOU...

[metbeton]

I do not support bay blan peyi a. I support let them invest but we have to be carelful with the investment as well. Haiti needs to open door for other foreigners to come and work. As a matter facts Haiti has not even gotten the justice that it deserves from the powerful countries. The History continue but it will never repeat itself. We as Haitians can work together to buld Haiti but we need a chance to work with other ppl around the world. We need to be honest with each others and the government has to do their duties.

[Haitianone]

First of all, T-Pouche posted something similar in the lets talk and I responded so refer to that response.

Haitian people always looking to blame others for messed up, France, elite, America, or voodoo. The reality is Haitians run the show over there and they alone should be blame. The voted in or supported corrupt governments.

Oh yeah, I would like the author to request the Queen of England for reparations for Trinidad since this article advocated that Haitians proceed with demanding the French for reparations. Trinidad is not going to do it because they don't want to be thrown out of the Commonwealth by the Queen and be destroyed and turn into Haiti. Of course, they want us to do it and become more isolated then we already are.

Hipchick, did you know Haiti is being occupied RIGHT NOW and the way things look for maybe 20-25 years.

So what you don't want already happen!!!!

Hipchick, I hope you are not one of those Haitian Americans living in the USA, peyi blan, enjoying it benefits and writing about Haitian pride and demanding for Haiti to be independent, while your brothers and sisters are being left for dead in Haiti.
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Statehood or Bust

Last edited by Haitianone on Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

[Haitianone]

metbeton wrote:

I do not support bay blan peyi a. I support let them invest but we have to be carelful with the investment as well. Haiti needs to open door for other foreigners to come and work. As a matter facts Haiti has not even gotten the justice that it deserves from the powerful countries. The History continue but it will never repeat itself. We as Haitians can work together to buld Haiti but we need a chance to work with other ppl around the world. We need to be honest with each others and the government has to do their duties.

You think they just invest and let Haitian makats destroy it another time. The reason why nobody invest in Haiti is because its institutions are corrupt. Haitians work together to rebuild their country. I heard that 1000 times already and look at Haiti today. We need to be honest with each other. This must be a joke!!!! LOL!!!!!!


Where do you live USA? Are you not enjoying yourself in the peyi blan?

Ala des koze,
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Statehood or Bust

[HIPchick]

Haitianone wrote:

First of all, T-Pouche posted something similar in the lets talk and I responded so refer to that response. Haitian people always looking to blame others for messed up, France, elite, America, or voodoo. The reality is Haitians run the show over there and they alone should be blame. The voted in or supported corrupt governments. Oh yeah, I would like the author to request the Queen of England for reparations for Trinidad since this article advocated that Haitians proceed with demanding the French for reparations. Trinidad is not going to do it because they don't want to be thrown out of the Commonwealth by the Queen and be destroyed and turn into Haiti. Of course, they want us to do it and become more isolated then we already are. Hipchick, did you know Haiti is being occupied RIGHT NOW and the way things look for maybe 20-25 years. So what you don't want already happen!!!! Hipchick, I hope you are not one of those Haitian Americans living in the USA, peyi blan, enjoying it benefits and writing about Haitian pride and demanding for Haiti to be independent, while your brothers and sisters are being left for dead in Haiti.

H1, what I find very sad is you thinking that you are being smart and funny. Rejoicing in the fact that your country has to be occupied is not something anyone who knows history or has any care for its people would do. I posted this text like I stated before, not to preach, but in the hopes that many of you would read and try to comprehend a bit better HOW a country suchas Haiti gets into such a financial and political predicament and that until HAITIANS AND HAITI STAR RE-BUILDING THEMSELVES then even with the help of thousands we are destined to failure.

Furthermore, please refrain from joking or speculating about my dedication to my country because unlike you I intimately know Haiti and have concrete ties to it and my people that you could never understand with the mindset that you have. You have no idea what I've done for Haiti nor what it's done for me, nor is it necessary to display at this moment for all to see. And unlike some others with the slave mentality, I never consider U.S.A. as the White man's country because it was fought for with African blood and its history includes Whites and Blacks such as JFK and MLK, meaning it is the country of us all, including those born there like I was.
_________________
Stay HIP!

[Haitianone]

HIPchick wrote:

Haitianone wrote: First of all, T-Pouche posted something similar in the lets talk and I responded so refer to that response. Haitian people always looking to blame others for messed up, France, elite, America, or voodoo. The reality is Haitians run the show over there and they alone should be blame. The voted in or supported corrupt governments. Oh yeah, I would like the author to request the Queen of England for reparations for Trinidad since this article advocated that Haitians proceed with demanding the French for reparations. Trinidad is not going to do it because they don't want to be thrown out of the Commonwealth by the Queen and be destroyed and turn into Haiti. Of course, they want us to do it and become more isolated then we already are. Hipchick, did you know Haiti is being occupied RIGHT NOW and the way things look for maybe 20-25 years. So what you don't want already happen!!!! Hipchick, I hope you are not one of those Haitian Americans living in the USA, peyi blan, enjoying it benefits and writing about Haitian pride and demanding for Haiti to be independent, while your brothers and sisters are being left for dead in Haiti. H1, what I find very sad is you thinking that you are being smart and funny. Rejoicing in the fact that your country has to be occupied is not something anyone who knows history or has any care for its people would do. I posted this text like I stated before, not to preach, but in the hopes that many of you would read and try to comprehend a bit better HOW a country suchas Haiti gets into such a financial and political predicament and that until HAITIANS AND HAITI STAR RE-BUILDING THEMSELVES then even with the help of thousands we are destined to failure. Furthermore, please refrain from joking or speculating about my dedication to my country because unlike you I intimately know Haiti and have concrete ties to it and my people that you could never understand with the mindset that you have. You have no idea what I've done for Haiti nor what it's done for me, nor is it necessary to display at this moment for all to see. And unlike some others with the slave mentality, I never consider U.S.A. as the White man's country because it was fought for with African blood and its history includes Whites and Blacks such as JFK and MLK, meaning it is the country of us all, including those born there like I was.

Very nice, maybe if you read carefully enough you would know I am not joking but being quite real with my views. After witnessing and having known people that have died, this is not something coming here to joke about. Also, where did I question your dedication to the people? I asked a simple proposition being that you are Haitian American, would you not want some of your country men and women to enjoy the same privileges you enjoy in the USA instead of the carnage being put upon on our people in Haiti by its Haitian government. Apparently, you did not answer that question but a send an attack to illustrate how more connected you are with the people in the homeland. Well, if you had not noticed Haitians were carrying the American flag and praising America given the Haitian government have abandoned them. The same crappy Haitian government you want to continue upholding our independence with no dignity or pride or humility. Got those words from my peeps down there as well seen photos. I imagine you did know that but then again you are so more connected.

When I am talking statehood, it is not giving up on my history, the legacy of my forefathers, and even Louventure knew it when he wanted Haiti to be province of France. It is reality that Haiti has fallen and with the Haitian government and mentalities of the political class in Haiti it will not rise from this at all. Today, your Haitian government tried to make an attempt to get some money for reconstruction and all they got was no comments. Meaning no money for awhile while aid groups from Haiti got more time from the various government ministers to see how much they need to go to help the people.

Haiti has been occupied on 1/13/10, and will be until who knows when. I am only here proposing my people a chance, our history will never be lost but Haiti will not continue to stand with the sleaze that it has as leaders. I put my money on it and I already know. There will be no change because corruption is too strong and dignity of the Haitian government is so weak. I have all but given up on the Haitian political class in Haiti. Haiti needs help in ruling itself and the only it is going to get it is by statehood.

Puerto Rico is run by Puerto Ricans and it is a commonwealth of the US, so was Hawaii and so is the US Virgin Islands. If Haiti becomes a commonwealth and eventual state it will also be run by Haitians with assistance by the US and strong economic initiatives for our government to adhere to become prosporous then what it is today.

To keep referring to 1804 like many do or refer to slavery days as some point of pride is nice. Louventure had faced the same situation he wanted Haiti to stay with France and they killed for that. Well, Haiti is here again, with France not a factor but the US, I am more then willing to follow the US and have Haiti become state.

Otherwise, you will be here again 30 years from now saying same old stuff with millions dying or starving to death talking about Haitian pride saving stories. Haitians may love their country but they do not know how to run a country.

All I want is to have my country men and women a chance so they can live a better life and escape this poverty and misery they are under. You want them to wait so Haitians can figure it out, then you are sending your people to death because frankly we will not figure nothing out.

All I remember when I saw a young man talking to a Marine in Cite Soleil all he wants is job and the Marine was like you know what why is their government not helping find something for them to do even if it is picking garbage or fixing pipes or rebuild some homes? It was foreign to that American because the living conditions in Cite Soleil are so primitive.

All I want is for Haiti to have a piece of what I enjoyed in America so maybe the lives of our people can improve.
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Statehood or Bust

[FANMKONESE]

H1 I am with you 95%.....for 200 yrs we Haitians are running with this pride of first black independent state....bla bla bla...Kote nous ye still deye bouda camionette la........forget about the blanc let's focus ON US....We dont take care of our own...We are selfish....Haitian conjuge on seul verb BAN'M ...BAN'M BAN'M.....AND NOT BAY BAY...The elite in Haiti is a bunch of salope tintinade....They dont give back to the community.....let's not even go far this restavek crap needs to be abolish trop abu...trop peine....nous vole..enfin si se blanc ki pou aide'n so be it...Nan stad HAITI NOW pa guen pride....passe pride nan fant derriere nous and sezi tout opportunite ki ap come our way....

Last years ago after visiting France I realized ke tout mess francais se Qualite li ye pous Haitian...Nous besoin retire ti mentalite francais sa nan zo bois tete nous pou nous vanse pou pi devant......
_________________
Personally, I am always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught."

--Winston Churchill

[dalida]

Quote:

Very nice, maybe if you read carefully enough you would know I am not joking but being quite real with my views. After witnessing and having known people that have died, this is not something coming here to joke about. Also, where did I question your dedication to the people? I asked a simple proposition being that you are Haitian American, would you not want some of your country men and women to enjoy the same privileges you enjoy in the USA instead of the carnage being put upon on our people in Haiti by its Haitian government. Apparently, you did not answer that question but a send an attack to illustrate how more connected you are with the people in the homeland. Well, if you had not noticed Haitians were carrying the American flag and praising America given the Haitian government have abandoned them. The same crappy Haitian government you want to continue upholding our independence with no dignity or pride or humility. Got those words from my peeps down there as well seen photos. I imagine you did know that but then again you are so more connected. When I am talking statehood, it is not giving up on my history, the legacy of my forefathers, and even Louventure knew it when he wanted Haiti to be province of France. It is reality that Haiti has fallen and with the Haitian government and mentalities of the political class in Haiti it will not rise from this at all. Today, your Haitian government tried to make an attempt to get some money for reconstruction and all they got was no comments. Meaning no money for awhile while aid groups from Haiti got more time from the various government ministers to see how much they need to go to help the people. Haiti has been occupied on 1/13/10, and will be until who knows when. I am only here proposing my people a chance, our history will never be lost but Haiti will not continue to stand with the sleaze that it has as leaders. I put my money on it and I already know. There will be no change because corruption is too strong and dignity of the Haitian government is so weak. I have all but given up on the Haitian political class in Haiti. Haiti needs help in ruling itself and the only it is going to get it is by statehood. Puerto Rico is run by Puerto Ricans and it is a commonwealth of the US, so was Hawaii and so is the US Virgin Islands. If Haiti becomes a commonwealth and eventual state it will also be run by Haitians with assistance by the US and strong economic initiatives for our government to adhere to become prosporous then what it is today. To keep referring to 1804 like many do or refer to slavery days as some point of pride is nice. Louventure had faced the same situation he wanted Haiti to stay with France and they killed for that. Well, Haiti is here again, with France not a factor but the US, I am more then willing to follow the US and have Haiti become state. Otherwise, you will be here again 30 years from now saying same old stuff with millions dying or starving to death talking about Haitian pride saving stories. Haitians may love their country but they do not know how to run a country. All I want is to have my country men and women a chance so they can live a better life and escape this poverty and misery they are under. You want them to wait so Haitians can figure it out, then you are sending your people to death because frankly we will not figure nothing out. All I remember when I saw a young man talking to a Marine in Cite Soleil all he wants is job and the Marine was like you know what why is their government not helping find something for them to do even if it is picking garbage or fixing pipes or rebuild some homes? It was foreign to that American because the living conditions in Cite Soleil are so primitive. All I want is for Haiti to have a piece of what I enjoyed in America so maybe the lives of our people can improve. _________________

Monche, I notice people are trying to cut our heads because we want change for For Haiti by any means necessary.


I don't think any haitian is proud for the fact that Haiti is being occcupied or about to be. But the reality is, Haitians can not govern the country. We can wait fot another two hundred years in hoping that Haiti will change, When you know it i know it nothing will never change in Haiti as long as we have the same elite and the same government. For two hundred years, the country goes from bad to worst. Wait a minute. When i look at it, isn't Haiti occupied behind the scene anyway. You have political problem you wait for the blanc to take care of it for you, natural disaster, you wait for the blanc to help because your government can't do jack. Hunger, menn ti bagay. Shoot. I think they should take over haiti in front of the whole world, and then they will have no choice but to do well by us.

For the People who are talking about independence

Ok I see. You're so proud of your country you can't even live there.
You're so proud of the fact that you're the first black independent, you're
can't wait to get your loves one out of that mess.

I notice two types of people that are against occupation in Haiti.
The elite, the Government and some politicians and now notice a few more.

But at the end, it comes down to one thing. All these people have food in their refrigerator, Their kids can go to school without any problems. As a matter of fact their kids don't even go to school in Haiti.

I mean when does it stop. When 80% of a population living below poverty line, living in dire situation You have to swallow that damn pride.
Afterall, no one can change the fact that Haiti is the mother of freedom.

If Dessalines or toussaint came and saw their people living in this condition, i'm sure they'd ask themselves. What the hell did i do?
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Alon bel fraz sa. Devan byen deye malllll.

Last edited by dalida on Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total